March 6, 2013
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Abortion – Sidewalk Counseling…what it is, what it is not, and what it means to me
In which I talk about sidewalk counseling, and thereby open myself up to every sort of hatred and vitriol on the internet. Ah, well. ”They hate you because they hated me first”. - Jesus.
New Youtube channel, by the way
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Comments (57)
You are good at talking on video! I’m excited for more.
I doubt anyone is going to say anything hateful after seeing this.
@ShimmerBodyCream - She is great at it
@ShimmerBodyCream - Aw thanks
@trunthepaige - You’ve been on the internet…right??
@NightCometh - Yes now on youtube there are a lot of creeps. Here I just do not see the creeps being attracted to this. I could be wrong I hope not
Thanks, Amy. I am aware of the things you talk about. I wish there were more people called to do this. Years ago my church would go near the place where these murders were taking place and do what you describe here.
Thanks again.
When I was seventeen, my future husband forced me into an abortion, saying he would hit me in the stomach and make me miscarry if I didn’t do it, and if that didn’t work, he would abuse the baby once it was born…….he walked me past a lady who was a sidewalk counselor, the look in her eyes and the compassion she showed made me wish she was my mother. My mother had already told me I needed to quit my job and my social life and take care of the house or get married and get out……..I had a hard time at home and figured if she didn’t want me to be a burden she for sure would not want me bringing a baby home……I was saved and knew the baby would go to the Lord immediately and never be hurt in life like I had been, so I went through with it. I hated myself for years over it and figured the Lord could forgive me, but I couldn’t forgive myself for murdering someone so innocent who would love me…….I’m so glad there are people out there like you. I always wanted to tell that woman who talked to me my story but I don’t know where she is……..so I decided to tell you. Not every abortion is decided by the mother…….sometimes its the selfish boyfriend, or parents who dont want to deal with stigma…….I have a friend who had that situation, for her it was abortion or get out, she was a teenager too at the time.
you lost me after the nonsense about PP purposefully sabotaging birth control to get more abortion business.
Allow me to commit an act of brotherly love and inform you that in the eyes of many (not me of course), you have stepped in it royally.
right… now let me see what is to hate…
You know this subject… its pretty moving!
I’m listening to it on the other page so I could signup from my Christian blog at Revelife. I’m multitasked. Hope to see you there — or the other blog.
Thanks,
Hunt
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - That’s fine. I don’t expect to win any popularity contests.
you are ok. remember ;
Isaiah 41:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 So do not fear,A)’> for I am with you;B)’>
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthenC)’> you and helpD)’> you;
I will uphold youE)’> with my righteous right hand.F)’>
Wonderful to see you and hear your voice! Thank you for being a courageous woman of God; you are going to save lives, sister.
I didn’t quite understand the part where you mentioned that sometimes birth control is designed to fail so people will come have abortions. Did I misunderstand you? Could you say more on this?
This was great. I’m so glad you shared!
@whataboutbahb - Sure. PP gives birth control and reports the numbers as a very small failure rate. But how can it than be that MOST women who come in for an abortion were using artificial birth control at the time they got pregnant? Look here:
http://www.acceptingabundance.com/mathematical-proof-that-birth-control-fails/
and I can find more if you don’t like that.
Also, they hand it out like candy to teens, without parental consent. Teens have higher pregnancy rates while on birth control, because teens are notorious for not being as careful. The pill has to be taken at the same time every day to be effective. Right between geometry class and lunch isn’t as easy to do as taking it the same time for an adult, and it shows up in the numbers. The numbers on condoms are much worse, as to be expected. You have to remember that PP is a business, not a charity organization, even though it likes to act like one. It is there to make money. And abortion is its money maker. They give a pill to prevent people from coming back for the big ticket item. Don’t think for a moment that they benevolently want people to never come back.
“Each one of us was harmed by being brought into existence. That harm is not negligible, because the quality of even the best lives is very bad – and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be. Although it is obviously too late to prevent our own existence, it is not too late to prevent the existence of future possible people.” – David Benatar; Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence.
Abortion is the kindest choice for every pregnancy because it would spare these potential people from the pain, suffering, sadness, etc. that await them in a life on earth. Since it’s better never to have been brought into existence, it follows that abortion is kind, caring, and the altruistic choice for pregnancy.
“We infrequently contemplate the harms that await any new-born
child—pain, disappointment, anxiety, grief, and death. For any given
child we cannot predict what form these harms will take or how severe they will be, but we can be sure that at least some of them will occur.
None of this befalls the nonexistent. Only existers suffer harm.”- David Benatar; Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence.
I will forever resent my mother for bringing me into this world rather than terminating me before I had the chance to experience any sort of pain and suffering.
@alterb4ego - You are not “damaged” or different or “bad”–you are a strong woman who went through emotional abuse and survived a controlling ex-boyfriend. I feel you were a victim in this situation. God knows your heart, sister. I am so sorry you’ve lived with this hurt and burden for so long…I really hope you daily are alleviated more and more from it…that you feel sure about God’s complete love for you.
You have a good heart. Don’t let those who criticize or act hateful get you down.
@alterb4ego - I am so sorry you went through that.
Nice video.
@Jenny_Wren - I do now but it’s taken over twenty years to come to a place where I didn’t cry over it. Thank you. I just wish I’d had more faith in the Lord then than I had and that I’d asked someone else for help who I thought might would have helped.
I am so glad you did this! Now I am wondering if there is a local group that does this, so I can get involved. Recently read a book called “The Myths of Sex Education”, Planned Parenthood isn’t about helping teenagers, they are about making money. When they provide “free” services, they are actually being paid by government grants — our tax dollars! Personally, I am against my taxes paying for abortions.
About the post, here is one of the things that makes me lose respect for your efforts and religion; you prey on people in stages and times of trouble when they are most vulnerable with the thought of getting a conversion. It’s one step away from being a human vulture preying on peoples emotions at a time of possible pain.
The fact is that, in effect, you are cashing in on someones choice and life with absolutely no knowledge of their situation. You think they are vulnerable and you take advantage. With all the problems with children, I personally think you could find much more effective things to do. And most of them have nothing to do with religion.
I think if you had something real that people would see this for themselves and you wouldn’t have to brainwash little children or try to ‘counsel’ people in times of sever crisis when you haven’t been asked to do so. It shows a deep lack of respect for people.
Very good! Thank you!
@brown_buffalo - How is it preying on someone? In order to prey on someone, or something, there has to be something to gain. She has nothing to gain, unlike PP that does indeed have to gain. While they may provide abortions or birth control to individuals at no cost, they are reimbursed, plus a fee, each time they provide a “service.”
Quite honestly, if anyone is preying on vulnerable individuals, it’s PP.
@brown_buffalo - i second this. watching this video makes me want to volunteer at PP as an escort.
@brown_buffalo - I chuckled a little at the “cashing in” statement. Are you under the impression I’m somehow making money off doing this? Quite the opposite. I’m volunteering my time and resources to do this, all because I want to help people and think it’s wrong to kill your children. Christ is the MOST important thing to me in the world, and I want to offer hope to people. I have never understood why so many pro-choice people want to characterize that as somehow harassing or “preying” on people. I want to keep them from years of pain, bitterness, guilt, depression, etc. I’m not selling anything or offering anything other than hope, understanding, and real financial help to people who WANT it. Why is that so hard to understand?
@flapper_femme_fatale - @grim_truth -
@flapper_femme_fatale - Really they really push condoms and their 15% failure rate. That’s right 100 couples use them and 15 of them get pregnant. The pill 9 out of a 100 woman using it get pregnant. That is a lot of pregnancies
OK I was wrong you did get a hater. But he hates so many people
@flapper_femme_fatale - I thought you didn’t watch it?
@flapper_femme_fatale - One more thing about planned parenthood and bad contraceptives. That 15% failure rate for condoms is not for the cheep crude that PP gives away.Theirs are worse
Consumer Reports Ranks Planned Parenthood Condoms Low
This was really interesting to hear about
! And I’m on your side with this, but I don’t see what there is to hate for people who aren’t.
WHY NOT FOLLOW THE FAITH FROM THE GIT-GO!?
@grim_truth - Aside from what PP does, which does not come into this discussion, she gets plenty from this. It may not be money, but she is following her self interest at the expense of others at a time of trouble. Suppose I stood outside churches and preached non-belief to parishoners when they came out of church because THAT is something I believe in. The pastor and the police would escort me off the public property I was on and you know it.
But that’s beside the point, Christians in general prey on the weak and suffering because they don’t get the converts from rational people because what they are talking about is nonsense to most people. So the only way they keep this bronze age dogma alive is by taking advantage of people in dire situations, or brain washing little children. Westboro is an extreme example of this, but it’s prevalent in all religions.
@NightCometh -
Maybe I’m just not cynical enough, but I don’t think the data you’re giving establishes your conclusion. (Though, I’m not trying to claim that it’s an impossibility.) Your conclusion relies on a counter-factual that people having sex on birth control would not have sex if they had no birth control. Assuming that is true, it also assumes that 1) planned parenthood knows that giving people birth control will make them more likely to have sex, 2) one of planned parenthood’s motives in making sure people have more sex will be that more women get pregnant, and 3) planned parenthood wants more pregnancies, so they can do more abortions.
@NightCometh - Lets not argue about a miss spoken word like cashing in. The real issue is that YOU believe something and you’ve chose to market your idea’s to people who are going through a hard and emotional time. They aren’t asking you for anything and most of the time you simply manipulate women’s emotions to get your good feeling. You do what you do because it makes you feel good, whatever rationalizations you use are immaterial.
What you need to do is open a store front, like say a church, and speak to a willing captive audience instead of assaulting people who on the whole don’t want to talk to you. I don’t think you’ve actually put yourself in someone else’s position like this and thought about it. Just because you think something is right or wrong doesn’t mean others do, and the way you approach them hurts your purpose more than anything else.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Thanks. Personally I don’t care about the issue, but when I see someone on a quest for a buzz from God by basically verbally assaulting people who have a dire situation or just plain don’t need to be harassed on the street by religion, I feel I have to comment. I will say that I’d never confront someone on the street doing this though because they do have a right to do it within limits. It’s what make America a great place. And I don’t think of NightCometh as some evil person, I just think that she has a very low standard for evidence, which is how I feel about all religious people. It’s hard to get people to think outside the personal bias they have, or to really put yourself in someone else’s shoes who believes something different than you.
NightCometh may have great success in approaching people when they clearly can’t make decisions due to anxiety or fear, but what kind of luck would she have if you take the emotional element out of it, would rational people she stopped on the street respond in anything like the numbers she likely gets in front of abortion clinics? Remains to be seen, but I don’t expect anyone to volunteer to answer honestly. So let’s say she see’s Joy going to the abortion clinic and manages to get her to stop long enough to listen and lets give Joy the situation like so many are in, she’s pregnant, in 11th grade, her parents are likely to freak out and things will NEVER be the same at home. Lets say that NightCometh talks her out of an abortion. Is NightCometh going to help her with her family, or help her get a job that pays enough to raise a kid, or offer her a home when she gets kicked out of her own? No NightCometh is only in this for the Jesus points according to her understanding of Him. From my view, if I were a righteous God, I’d tell her most of what I’ve just said here. If you want to give your life to God, then sell all your possessions and follow him, but it means a lot to do that these days, and Christians have watered down their own doctrine to something that fits neatly into their secular lives. I don’t blame the people as much as I blame the insidious nature of non-rationality that drives them. Religion
My experience with sidewalk “counselors” went like this. After deciding to get married my wife asked me if I would go for an AIDS/sexually transmitted disease test. I was confident I was had none but it was reasonable request. She told me Planned Parenthood offered the tests for free. She offered to do the same so we went together. As we approached the entrance a small group of people behind a barricade across the street began yelling slurs at my wife to be. I turned and took a step in their direction but my wife grabbed me and said it wasn’t worth it. There was a NYC police officer there probably to both protect them and to make sure they didn’t step over the line. Lucky for them.
@TheSutraDude - I’m very sorry this happened to you. People are sinful, and when people genuinely trying to help get caught up in emotion their sin can overtake them. I assure you I’ve never done anything like that, nor do I want to.
inspiring…
@brown_buffalo - If you were to preach your beliefs outside of a Church, off Church property, you would not be escorted off, as you have a Second Amendment right to do so. You cannot make an assumption and claim it to be fact, just because it’s what you wish to believe.
Christians certainly do get plenty of converts from rational people. I am one of them. I grew up in a Christian home, but gave up my faith for a while. Well, maybe not gave it up, but I did quit going to Church and I seriously questioned the existence of God, and for a while didn’t believe any type of God could exist. I came back to the Church years later. Not because of an event in my life, but because I continue to question things. I continue to study and observe.
Giving people facts about abortions, and letting them know there are indeed other options is hardly preying on anyone. Many times, people are scared about abortions. They seek one out because they don’t know of the other options. They’re scared of raising a child alone, or scared of the costs of raising a child.
PP is indeed a part of the discussion, as they are the subject of her “sidewalk counseling.” Any decent doctor will always discuss the downside to any procedure that is not medically necessary. They will do everything they can to make absolute sure it’s what the patient really wants. From plastic surgery, sterilization, lasik, etc. PP has had a history of not doing that.
Sidewalk counseling is not about gaining converts. It’s about letting these mothers, and fathers if present, know there are indeed other options that can be safer, and not as traumatic. It’s clear that you have your idea of what it is and no amount of convincing or evidence can possibly change your mind about it. It’s really a shame that there is such close minded-ness still out there.
@grim_truth -
“ If you were to preach your beliefs outside of a Church, off Church property, you would not be escorted off, as you have a Second Amendment right to do so. You cannot make an assumption and claim it to be fact, just because it’s what you wish to believe. “
I’ve seen this happen and so has JT Eberhard.
“Christians certainly do get plenty of converts from rational people. I am one of them. I grew up in a Christian home, but gave up my faith for a while. Well, maybe not gave it up, but I did quit going to Church and I seriously questioned the existence of God, and for a while didn’t believe any type of God could exist. I came back to the Church years later. Not because of an event in my life, but because I continue to question things. I continue to study and observe.”
I didn’t say they didn’t get converts, I said the get fewer converts from rational people than they do from people in these situations.
See, here is where the typical belief system on conservative republicans confuses me. You say that people who come for counselling to PP aren’t given any alternative by the PP doctors. Why should they? You’ve obviously come in to get information and make a decision for yourself. Does a Ford dealer extol the virtues of Chevy? So on the one hand conservatives who are the majority or the Right To Life crowd seem to be saying on the one hand that you should make your own decisions and not let the government make them for you, yet somehow they are unwilling to give the same respect to individuals at PP. I don’t mind them reaching out to people, but do it by the rules and rent you a spot next door to PP and advertise so people come to you. Until then, it’s assault.
“Sidewalk counseling is not about gaining converts. It’s about letting these mothers, and fathers if present, know there are indeed other options that can be safer, and not as traumatic. It’s clear that you have your idea of what it is and no amount of convincing or evidence can possibly change your mind about it. It’s really a shame that there is such close minded-ness still out there.”
C’mon, do you believe what you’re saying here. They practically wear a Jesus uniform, and certainly have signs. Most, and I won’t speak for NightCometh here, are simply out on the sidewalk flinging insults and arguing with people, no wait, they don’t argue with people because you have to actually have an argument to argue.
@brown_buffalo - I’ve seen this happen and so has JT Eberhard.
And I’ve seen where it was allowed. What’s your point? You made a statement that is not an inherent truth, though you pose it as such.
I didn’t say they didn’t get converts, I said the get fewer converts from rational people than they do from people in these situations.
Um… Yeah, you did:
“they don’t get the converts from rational people”
See, here is where the typical belief system on conservative republicans confuses me.
See, this is where you prove me correct in aleady having made your decision without basing it on facts or actual observations. Where in my comments did I indicate I was conservative or republican? I’m an independent libertarian. And why would you be confused anyway? Some folks standing on the sidewalk giving advice is hardly gov’t intervention. However, the “conservative republicans” you seem to be confused about are about a free market. A truly free market gives the opportunity to hear both sides in order to make an educated decision. The fact that this would confuse you basically shows your lack of knowledge of political ideologies. That or you just hate people because of what they are and not who they are. In other words, you judge them based on beliefs, or other arbitrary criteria instead of actual substance. The interesting thing is, bigots judge people the same way. And yes, before you ask or insinuate, people who hurl slurs to women entering these clinics from the sides are bigots as well.
Does a Ford dealer extol the virtues of Chevy?
No, but a good salesman WILL compare the two. The fact that PP won’t do that says something. Again, we’re not talking buying a product. We’re talking a medical procedure that comes with a risk. There is no risk of death, infection, or the inability to ever conceive again from just buying a Ford. But there is a risk of complications that can lead to those from abortions.
but do it by the rules and rent you a spot next door to PP and advertise so people come to you. Until then, it’s assault.
What rules? Yours? Are you saying no one has the right to stand on public property and excercise their 2nd Amendment rights? Or is it just the folks that have views differing from yours? In order for you not to be a blatant hypocrite, you would have to delete any and all comments you ever leave on a blog, article etc.
Most, and I won’t speak for NightCometh here, are simply out on the sidewalk flinging insults and arguing with people
Based on what? Actual observations or what you hear from propaganda machines, or what you just want to believe? While it does happen, it is far from the majority.
@grim_truth - Ok, lets do this, and I have reason to say this. You think they are giving an alternative, and some of them do, in a nice way, however I MYSELF have been (in the past) involved with this movement and have seen what really goes on, and by far the majority of people who do this are confronted and it turns into a yelling match. This is my experience which is backed up by many other people’s observations. I just think it’s a lousy way to do things. So be that as it may I personally have a condition which requires that I take some pain killers, typing is becoming too much of a thought process to convey my thoughts on this adequately, and I certainly dont want to get into any conflict over this. I fully realize that it’s easier for an individual to have a coherent world view and much harder for organizations, especially those loosely organized like religion, have as consistent a worldview. Perhaps its unfair of me to take advantage of this, but the ideology seems confusing to me.
In the above I was being general, as in the majority of the support comes from conservative republicans, but not all. I wasn’t trying to fit you personally in a box in other words and I apologize if it came out that way.
@brown_buffalo - Your statements about worldview baffle my mind. I think the worldview presented by Christianity is extremely clear: That God is supreme in the world, in thought, feeling, deed, understanding, in everything. The Bible is clear on how Christians are to act. To be kind, to be sacrificial, to preach the gospel in season and out of season (and being told you are scum, being spit on, screamed AT, etc, is definitely out of season). Is my worldview unclear to you? Is there a way I could clear it up?
The worldview that presents abortion as a good thing is one based on SELF. That MY needs are the highest goal. I get to choose what happens to my body because I’m the most important thing. ”It’s MY body, it’s MY choice”. Christianity is the opposite of that. ”Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.” I am not my own, but I am a slave of Christ. ”No man can serve two masters” – Matthew 6:24. We cannot serve God and ourselves. That is why I give up things I would LIKE to do, to do that which God as required. That’s why I don’t dress the same way, listen to the same music, watch the same movies, talk the same way, etc. Because Christianity has a very different goal, and that goal is living for God instead of myself. This is because Jesus himself has DIED for me to forgive me my sins. It’s not about me, instead it’s about Him. Living this way changes everything. It’s why I’m willing to endure ridicule and being falsely accused of …what did you say…preying on people and cashing in? Unbelievable.
You also accuse me of watering down my own doctrine and to fit into my secular life. What do you know about me that would lead to you believe I lead a secular life? Be honest now. Do you know me? What have I presented here that gives clues to the kind of life I lead? Use that rational mind you seem so proud of. Go on.
@brown_buffalo - i also find it disingenuous that the extent of her “help” is just talking someone out of an abortion. she says in the video that financial help will come. has she ever written a check for an unplanned pregnancy? adopted a child? paid for a woman’s medical care while pregnant?
she seems awfully willing to help… up to the point of actually sacrificing something valuable to her.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Why not question the centers that do JUST that? We send people to them. It’s another part of the ministry. I am on the counseling side, and the crisis pregnancy centers do all the financial and practical help.
@NightCometh -
“I have never understood why so many pro-choice people want to characterize that as somehow harassing or “preying” on people.”
when i was uninsured, i went to PP for my yearly exams and birth control (which, by the way, never failed me). several times, protesters harassed me because they assumed i was there for an abortion. what was really pathetic was that the particular PP location i went to didn’t even offer abortions in-house. if they had bothered to do two minutes of internet research, they would have known that.
ironically enough, the one PP location in my city that DOES abortions never has protesters. i found out from a local pro-life blog that it’s because all the white pro-lifers from the suburbs are too scared to go downtown.
i can appreciate what you do, even if i disagree with it. but i don’t think you’re actually willing to help when and where it counts (see my above comment to someone else).
@flapper_femme_fatale - It doesn’t really matter what you think. I help in all the ways I can. I don’t have much money, but if someone really needed it, it would be theirs. I go downtown to certain clinics all the time. And the organizations I work with don’t send people to non-abortive facilities, so there ya go. I’ve shown my heart here on this video…take it or leave it.
@NightCometh - calling what you do counseling is like referring to McDonald’s as upscale dining. true counselors receive training for many years before engaging. and they don’t confront people who aren’t actively seeking help.
nor do true counselors speak to people with an objective. counselors are supposed to be impartial.
I’m glad that you’re doing this. Whatever the opposite side may think, it’s still important to keep showing people the other “choice” (though I don’t like to use that term because it’s a living child not a choice) especially since they can’t predict or prepare for the life-altering consequences after abortion.
This is off topic, but you look like Katy Perry.
@TrainTrack – Is that a bad thing?
@NightCometh - Katy Perry is beautiful.