August 1, 2012
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Christian intolerance
That is…intolerance toward Christians. In the name of tolerance, of course.
You can always praise tolerance unless someone has Christian beliefs. Then the war is on.These Christians were preaching the gospel at a “gay pride” rally. Which is the screaming, angry side here?
Can’t we at least play by the same set of definitions? Tolerance does not mean agreeing. It means being civil and respectful to those whose beliefs might be your polar opposite. For example, I detest the stuff that Westboro Baptist Church does, but I tolerate their right to do so because I’m tolerant (in the real sense of the word).
I will preach the gospel, and I will do so with kindness, grace, and not screaming. But I will not alter it in any way to make it less offensive to sin.
Comments (141)
It is interesting how very intolerant some of the most ardent supporters of tolerance have turned out to be. And how distinctly opposed to Christ-like behavior some Christians like the WBC have turned out to be. Hypocrisy isn’t just a problem for people who disagree with us, it seems. A valuable lesson for all of us.
@Nous_Apeiron - I really don’t see any sort of understanding of grace from the WBC. Grace and forgiveness of sins is central to Christianity, and inability to be “good” under the law. I doubt that many would consider WBC to be orthodox at all.
When you tolerate someone they don’t see it as love…and it isn’t.Love someone and you will eventually see intolerant walls start to slowly crumble.People say,”Oh,that doesn’t work”Well,it’s because you have to practice it til it becomes your norm.Too many things in this life are instant.Love is an ongoing thing that never stops,because when you stop,sin jumps in and takes over and that makes things to never end well.
So true. My brother works at Chick Fil A as a manager and he said that some stores have received angry calls because of the CEO’s stance for Christian values and traditional marriage. It is fine to see the people angry for it, but when the government decides to say they will not tolerate supposed “intolerance” from Chick Fil A, that concerns me.
I am excited to show my support tomorrow. I can’t say that I am surprised that the truth is such an abomination to these groups. The truth is either a fragrant scent to some, and an ugly smell of death to others. 2 Corinthians 2:15
We are living in the last days and we need to rise and be God’s church, stand strong and united and continue to fight the good fight. We also need to remember that the media is not portraying the truth of how some people respond to the Gospel .They are only portraying it from the perspective of those who are angry and hostile, but most people in the real world are more accepting of the Lord Jesus Christ if we present the Gospel in a loving manner and live our lives as Christ.
@PrincessVictoria_2004 - Well said, Miss Victoria.
I’m looking forward to a banana milkshake tomorrow…well, now TODAY, too.
Chris Rice said it well in one of his songs, “Yelling doesn’t make you right” (or words very much to that effect).
Anyone can be intolerant. Though I find it ironic that those who tend to proudly boast they are champions of tolerance are often the most intolerant.
The real meaning of gay rights means the obliteration of all human rights.
Their actions and attitudes are consistent with the actual meaning of their beliefs.
Consequently, I am NOT tolerant of the gay agenda since its objective is the destruction of Christianity and the civilization it produced.
A-men, I just posted my own blog concerning this in part… but mostly it is my own reaction to both sides of this chick-fil-a thing. Freedom of speech and religion require freedom for all, even if we disagree. Of course, this is not freedom to hate but freedom to understand and respect the other.
Every faction has its goofballs and idiots and fanatics; and they are the ones who get the publicity. I wonder if anyone was every converted to another opinion by someone screaming at them?
@Doubledb - Tyranny and freedom are mutually exclusive.
Gay rights means tyranny.
Consequently they will never tolerate Christians.
And Christians should never tolerate tyranny.
It’s funny how they’re screaming and cursing about how they hate intolerance. It shows that they are really just totalitarian pricks who like to throw around catch phrases.
@NightCometh - You’re right. It’s certainly true that none of the major Baptist conventions want anything to do with the WBC. And even if they weren’t toxic PR, their teachings and practice don’t match up with a Baptist ethos anyway.
I am christian, but I am not opposed to gay rights. I don’t see how provoking this group of people at their parade is much different than WBC. Sure, you have the right to be there, but that woman had a right to be that angry. I would be furious if someone stepped into my church and started spewing why our church is wrong. When people are disrespected, whatever their stance, they have the right to be as angry as that woman.
However, I do experience intolerance from a lot of people just being christian. Some people can’t accept a different belief. I get intolerance from a lot of Christians as well because I am non-denominated.
I have met intolerant atheists, christians, gays, straights, blacks, asians, muslims, whites.
But oddly enough, the most intolerant person I’ve interacted with has been an atheist. The most tolerant….a Methodist Rev
@AncoraImparo - By “most tolerant”, I’m afraid you probably mean he doesn’t believe what the Bible says about Jesus being the only way to heaven, and homosexuality being wrong, etc….right?
@phoebester - I agree that Christians are persecuted in those countries. We aren’t talking about persecution, but about people literally screaming “The Bible says don’t judge” over and over and then admitting they themselves are judging.
I don’t allow profanity on my blog.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I disagree, because we are lumping all Christians and all homosexuals into two groups.. and there is a wide variety of opinions and beliefs about these issues from those groups. I dont feel gay rights or gay marriage means tyranny over me. In fact, I think it means tyranny for them, being trapped in sin, perhaps so much, that they say it is good. I prefer for people to find freedom from tyranny through the gospel message and love than my law and legislation. I mean, after-all, was not that one of the problems Jesus had with the religious officials, that they had the law but did not remember the heart of the law.
@Doubledb - A philosophy is what it is. So there is no lumping to be done.
Christianity is hated by gay rights advocates.
And Christianity teaches that homosexuality is an “abomination”.
Consequently, the twain shall never meet.
I argue against gay rights based on human nature (natural law), since most gay rights advocates have rejected Christianity.
And since the belief in gay rights demands the denial of human nature, it necessarily demands the destruction of all human rights since they are based on human nature.
So it is easily shown that gay rights is by its very nature, an agenda for tyranny.
Me ? I asked my G/F if I was straight and she said no, you’re just confused, I asked Chris if I was gay one time and he said, no you’re just confused – so I guess that makes me quite tolerant of religion cause I know I just don’t like to fight.
Oh – and for the record I’m a Theist, cause I know something’s going on out there but I don’t know what I and I don’t believe the Bible is a divine work, and yeah some Christians may get all upset and angry with me about that.
You might be interested in an article I wrote sometime ago about tolerance and religion called, “The Riddle Of Religion.”
I recommend WolvenChic’s post.
And yeah to NightCometh, I don’t allow profanity on my blog either and in fact blocked one girl there posted the F word on it. I had to delete her post and block her account from posting again. Not nice what she did.
all i see are pharisees and miniature judges. christians trying to preach at a gay parade? really? and do they really expect the “opposition” to listen? i think it is not using wisdom to cast pearls before swine. perhaps respectfully handing out non-intrusive literature that doesn’t condemn would be more useful. bible-thumping is never going to work in this day and age because people are sick of being “thumped”.
love is all that is required to bring someone to the lord. and they have to come on their OWN accord, not because someone crammed a bible in their face. no, today’s street ministries are not so much different than those they seek to “save”.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Exactly! I don’t suppodt gay rights either. I do however support lesbian rights, especially the right to be sexy!
From Webster’s:
‘Tolerance: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one’s own.’
There is nothing tolerant about showing up at a gay pride parade and preaching that gays are going to hell. Period. There is also nothing tolerant about showing up in front of a Baptist Church dressed in assless chaps, with nipples pierced, holding hands with your same-sex partner, calling Baptists bigots. Tolerance is about choosing not to confront those who do not believe as you do until such a point that they begin to use their beliefs to interfere in your life. As an example, if a homosexual person decided to push a state law that requires that all citizens take a course that describes gay sex, I would jump up and fight it tooth and nail. I’d also jump up and fight if a religious person decided to push a state law that required that creation science be taught in all science classes. Both are egregious examples of intolerance and should be fought.
JMHO
No one should tolerate the kind of things that Wesborrow does.(My opinion) We didn’t tolerate Adolf Hitler, there are limits to tolerance you know.
they probably shouldn’t have been there in the first place. it was a gay pride parade. it’s a free country, but they maybe should have preached at a different place and time, and let them have their parade without the preaching.
@NightCometh - For understanding Christian knowledge,… you oughta understand… a sinless serenity holding only love entirely.
I’m an atheist and I think everyone should be tolerant of everyone’s religion
I won’t shove my beliefs down your throat if you don’t shove yours down mine, etc
Also groups like the Westboro Baptist Chutch just ruin it for all Christians imo which is why others are so intolerant of themI don’t think atheists and Christians will ever get along
@baby_you_love_it - You’re pretty bad at being atheist if you don’t constantly preach about the evils of religious folk
I’m kidding of course… there need to be more atheists like you who share the idea of tolerance.
@plantinthewindow - I was just thinking the same thing John.
@SKANLYN - hahaha. nice!
well… what did the Christians expect? they showed up at a GAY PRIDE PARADE to tell everyone they’re going to burn in Hell. how was what they were doing being respectful? respect is earned, and i have no issue with being disrespectful to someone who disrespects me.
do atheists and gay people show up at every church service and protest? i doubt it. but if you consider what these Christians were doing to be tolerant and respectful of homosexuality, i should start a protest group at the local Catholic church.
I wonder what those Christians were trying to achieve there in the first place. I just guess they either were trying to convert them or trying to piss them off.
Either way, it’s just wrong. Gay people and atheists also don’t show up at Christian gatherings to tell them how wrong the Christians are, that there is no heaven and basically that they are all stupid people for believing (probably making you just as angry as them being told they should be ashamed and are going to hell).
WBC shouldn’t be tolerated IMO that’s like tolerating child molesters.
That’s tough and all, but given that Christianity is still a dominant and hegemonic cultural force, there’s still a long way to go before atheists and other oppressed minorities can match the level of intolerance that allowed christians to wage wars against heathens, burn heretics, ostracize the unpenitent and mold all aspects of the culture to fit their specifications.
Not saying it’s entirely justified to scream at christians, but it’s small potatoes to take these small abuses after a thousand years of domination.
@flapper_femme_fatale - @SweetNGuilty - Christians who truly love non-Christians can think of no better thing to do than try to tell them now to NOT go to hell. It’s not to be annoying, it’s out of concern.
@Anemic_Royaltea - The thousand years argument doensn’t hold water. No one here has been stoned, had their homes burned down, etc. That does happen (to Christians) in other countries, however. Here they were just trying to preach the gospel.
@voodoo_flower_child - I don’t allow profanity on my blog. They had the right to be there on the street, by the way.
@flapper_femme_fatale - YES! This is the perfect analogy for small minded sheep to understand.
Those Christians were there to be abused. That’s what they were wanting, everybody wins. Now they have warm fuzziness about all their Jesus points. Pathetic religion.
@NightCometh - I don’t know if Jewish and Moslems who truly love non-same-religion folk do the same to them as Christians do.. but I really don’t think non-Christians appreciate anything of you’re doing. It’s like having someone mothering you when you already have a mother. Non-Christians will tolerate it if you two are friends, but in general it’s thanks, but no thanks. Especially at gatherings like these, the people are especially proud of who they are. You showing up = trying to take away their pride. That’s never going to end well. I guess this is the very reason why Christians and non-Christians will never truly get along.
@SweetNGuilty - Christ is the only way to heaven. We don’t want people to go to hell…for real…we don’t.
To be honest, neither side was showing tolerance. I will never claim that people of Christian faith have to like the gay rights movement, Muslims, Bhudists, etc. You are free to NOT like those things all day, its part of being an American. Being tolerant of somebody or their beliefs mean that you keep your opinions to yourself until an appropriate time. You don’t go into a big crowd during a gay pride festival and attempt to preach the Gospel. It would be no different if a group of Atheists came into your church and started trying to teach you logic. Preach to the individual, if and only if they are wanting to hear. If they ask you to leave them alone about it, leave them alone. I will tell you why. Trying to tell somebody what they should be doing when they don’t want to hear it just means that they are going to fight against it all the harder.
I personally am an Atheist. I do however welcome anybody who wishes to try and bring me into the fold. Many have tried. I simply have answers that I need in order to believe in God, and so far, nobody has been able to offer them.
So in the case you showed above, like I said, neither side was being respectful. There are peaceful ways to get a person to leave that is inciting strife, and the gay pride marchers didn’t practice those. The preacher, shouldn’t have been there in the first place. It was neither the time nor place to try and teach of the love of Christ.
@djsvain - Actually, it would be different than if you came to my church. These people are on the sidewalk which is totally legal, talking to people walking by. Going into a church building would be trespassing.
Well said!
@NightCometh - How is it different. They don’t have a separate building to express themselves. To let you know, if you had a bunch of Christians doing a “pride” event, nobody would protest it (accept maybe other religious groups). Atheists wouldn’t care, Gay people wouldn’t care, the government wouldn’t care. Yet a bunch of gay people go walking down the street unafraid to show who they are, and Christian groups are going to shut them down or threaten them with hell. If the Christian guy had just let them go about their way, then none of this would have been an issue in the first place. Gay people are not trying to tell people they should be gay. They aren’t trying to convert anybody. They simply want to be able to stand up proud and unafraid. Unfortunately a lone homosexual can’t do that. They are frequently beaten, threatened, and abused. Together they are strong and unafraid. Let them have it dude. Just stay out of it. The christian guy started it, and should have not been there at all. Simple as that.
@djsvain - Gay people are doing the very same thing! By being there they are sending a message. The Christians are sending another message, yet without nudity, vulgar costumes, profanity, or screaming.
I get along well with gays, have had many gay friends. I can’t accept the gay marriage agenda. Seems there is more to it than just gays getting married. I worry about a hidden agenda.
@NightCometh - Then have a separate parade. Teach your kids. Preach about it in your church. Don’t try to start fights by preaching obviously contradicting views in a huge public arena. You might as well bend over and say please kick my stupid ass. TIME AND PLACE.
Ecclesiastes 3:17 I thought in my heart, “God will bring to judgment both the righteous and the wicked, for there will be a time for every activity, a time for every deed.”Ecclesiastes 8:6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter, though a man’s misery weighs heavily upon him.
Don’t pick the time or place that will cause hatred, but pick the time and place that will encourage people to want to listen.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Yes, they have disrupted Mass, desecrated the Blessed Sacrament during Mass. It happens, sometime–usually in bigger cities.
@romic - So you are fine that they can’t get married to the person they love? You are fine that they don’t have the same freedom you have?
@djsvain - Go ahead: Ask me anything…
@romic - Fine, if God is all powerful, and loving, then why does God allow suffering? One argument used is to test faith. Easily solved, pop on down here and prove your existence. Another argument used is to punish the wicked. Tell that to a new born child that is slowly dying and in excruciating pain, or kids who have never done a wrong in their life dying of starvation. So I postulate, that either god wants people to suffer (in which case he is a cruel and evil God and not worthy of my love, faith or worship), God can’t do anything about it (in which case he is not all powerful and lying to you), or simply God does not exist (honestly the best of all three options in my eye.) So what good possible reason could god have to cause suffering of innocent children?
Don’t hate the person, hate the belief.
Why would anyone show up at a gay pride event and start preaching? It isn’t going to change anything, no one is going to suddenly stop being gay (they can’t, since it’s biological) and no one is going to convert at such an event. The only thing that ever happens is that they tell people the bible says they’re going to hell for being gay, people take offense, and the christians get to claim persecution, which I suspect is the entire motive for showing up there.
The only real goal is to assert one’s beliefs into a situation in which they know they are not welcome so they can claim to be ‘persecuted’. They aren’t actually reaching out to people or looking to help anyone. This is PR only.
Sadly, it got the intended response.
@ZombieMom_Speaks - Because we preach the gospel to sinners, and this was a big collection of sinners.
@djsvain - Suffering happens as a direct result of the fall of mankind into sin. We are all born sinners, and death is the wage earned by sin. We are all dying, slowly…little by little. Some die must faster, but all suffer. Jesus is the redeemer. He died to save us from our souls dying as well, but to bring us to heaven free from sin. We still suffer on this earth but don’t have to suffer in the next one because of Him. We DESERVE to suffer for our sins (me, you, everyone). Jesus died as a substitute to get us out of the punishment we deserve.
@NightCometh - It looks a lot like setting up a situation in which christians can cry persecution. No one has been converted at a gay pride event. No one ever gets converted at a Pagan pride even either, but that doesn’t stop anyone from showing up to preach. It just guarantees the christians the ability to claim falsely that they are being targeted for persecution.
If you show up at an event where you know without a doubt that your views will not be popular and people react negatively to you, it’s not ‘persecution’, it’s people trying to be who they are and not wanting to hear the message that they aren’t accepted. They hear that everywhere else and they can’t even be left in peace for that one day?
@SweetNGuilty - Agreed.Tolerance does not mean shutting up and putting up with the intolerance of others. It has to go both ways.
@NightCometh - So basically you mean gay people have to respect you screaming “you go to hell for being you!” at them, but yet you cannot respect their wish to be left alone. Do you respect people who yell profanity at you? Understand my point now?
Tolerance doesn’t mean respect. Tolerance = accepting that some people are different than you. Accepting = not trying to change them or make them feel ashamed/bad about being different. Your idea of being Christian is preventing any kind of tolerance or acceptance towards non-Christians. I find it very difficult to respect people who do not tolerate me. I like @djsvain‘s citation. Is the biblical (I assume) citation wrong? If so, why?
Are you okay with non-Christians protesting at the sidewalk leading to your church? That’s not trespassing.
One last thing… telling someone he’s going to hell is NOT civil, is it?
@ZombieMom_Speaks - You don’t know that no one as been converted!
@SweetNGuilty - Where did you get this screaming idea? No one in this video is screaming except the raving lady marching in the parade. No one is screaming “you’ll go to hell for being you”. Don’t succumb to logical fallacies.
You might as well say that black people were intolerant of the KKK…
@PrisonerxOfxLove - But if homosexuals cannot be Christians because they are sinner, than we are all lost, are we not? Because we all have our own sins. Sure, some homosexuals dont agree homosexuality is a sin but some epople dont think getting drunk is a sin or gossip or sex before marriage.
@Saridactyl - That’s just silly.
@NightCometh - Could you please answer my questions, instead of just pointing out where I am wrong? (I didn’t watch the video.) Maybe he wasn’t screaming, but even if he was whispering, the words coming out of his mouth are not civil if they mean others will go hell… even if he chose words with a ribbon on it.
@Saridactyl - LOL!
@SweetNGuilty - The verse from Ecclesiastes is true. There is a time for everything. But the New Testament also says: “Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.” 2 Timothy 4:2
This is is definitely “out of season”. It’s not popular, but we are Christians and we still must do it.
I think you should watch the video before commenting on the video. There is a great difference in how the two groups are acting.
@NightCometh - We can’t deny historical context. It’s like people saying they don’t see race or colour, they just see people, and everyone should just get over it. That’s a utopian long view, and it is an admirable end goal, but history is not so easily dismissed by those on the wrong side of it, and denying their experience in favour of ‘tolerance’ is part of the mess.
Again, I wasn’t justifying the behaviour, merely offering that it be acknowledged that in the grand scheme of things, a bit of yelling is insubstantial.
@NightCometh - I’m from Europe. English is a foreign language. I tried to watch it, but didn’t understand a word. So I can only comment on the looks on their faces and voice. I see an angry woman with a loud voice. And I see a calm man, didn’tt understand a word he said.
Since you deliberately left out my other questions.. I assume you have no nice answers to them.. or answers that would make it seem like the anger of the woman is understandable, which is why you chose to not answer.
@SweetNGuilty - Hold up. I did not deliberately leave out a question… I’m getting a lot of responses and missed it.
I’m okay with people protesting my church, yes. Means we are doing something right.
And telling someone they are going to hell is like telling someone not to drink poison. “If you drink that, you’ll die”. Or really like “you just drank poison, and I have the antidote”. A “tolerant” person would politely sit there and celebrate their right to drink poison and parade with them as they suffocate.
@NightCometh - So a child’s sin is breathing? It is born, it takes it’s first breath, and is immediately rushed off to be put on life support and continue on in excruciating pain. Wheather that child lives or dies, it should not be made to suffer. If that child is going to suffer because of something God made us do back in the garden of eden then I wouldn’t want to worship him anyways, that is cruel and unjust.
@NightCometh - yeah, they had the right to be there. But do they really expect to show up at a gay pride parade, bash on gays, and get treated with respect? I mean seriously, common sense. They are intolerant of everyone else, so they get that in return. Are we supposed to kiss their feet while they look down on everyone else? Jesus loved every body. Whores, gays, sick people. He didn’t only choose to respect people with the same beliefs. Christians are so far from christ it is sickening. Was that better? No profanity for you, but I bet you will delete it anyway because you disagree with it and god knows christians can’t handle a debate
@NightCometh - The poison argument doesn’t apply. Of course you interfere with somebody who took poison or is taking poison. They are doing physical and immediate harm to themselves. If you do not react at that instant, they will die or suffer. Of course you react like that. In the case of the people at the parade, no you let them do what they do, because they are going to do it anyways. you can’t effect that in any positive way. You can only wait until the proper time. If you were to wait until the proper time and speak in the right way you would gain a member to your flock. This one member coming to you is easily a thousand times better than a whole parade of people hating you for being rude. Would you not say? Time and place. You wouldn’t walk into the middle of Cyro and scream out that all Muslims are evil and doomed to suffer in hell would you? Of course not, you know that within seconds you would probably be dead. So why would you walk into a group of gay people and do the same thing. Doesn’t make even one bit of logical sense.
@NightCometh - You know, honestly we could trade bible blows back and forth all day. I can find a bible verse to support my argument, then you can find one to support yours, etc. I am pleased to see that you at lest know your bible. There are entirely too many Christians who only know what the pastor tells them and have rarely if ever even cracked the binding. I have read the book and find it to be horrifying and disgusting through large portions and have a few good morals and in short be a pretty good story book. I mean it has all the action, rape, blood, murder, incest, intrigue, and romance you could want to be an epic tale. The one thing that is so great about the bible is it lends itself so wonderfully to argument. Literally, I can find sections to argue any one point about it against any other point. I can argue that God is Jesus, and I can argue that God is not Jesus. I can argue that rape is ok, and that it is horrible. I can argue that you can eat pork and that you can’t, it doesn’t matter, it’s all there.
I did watch the video. They had a man standing on the side of the road who brought a small amp and a microphone. He was intentionally preaching to the people in the parade. He could have had the conversations on the side. He could have approached people individually, he could have done any number of things that would have been a thousand times more effective than what he did. I am not defending the screaming lady. I don’t defend the guy who threw the water bottle. They were in the wrong too. What I am simply saying is that there should be no bitching and wining about this. They guy should have expected it. If you put out your views to people, people are free to respond. If your views are going to anger people, then awesome, expect anger. Don’t scream intolerance. You asked for it.
Yeah, he’s being annoying. That doesn’t just justify their rage, but their rage was pretty foreseeable. I’m not sure what he was preaching about until that point, but they do seem pretty intolerant.
@djsvain - @brown_buffalo - Why is gay hate and violence so accepted and taken for granted. Can’t they behave like civilized human beings?
And what does that say about a group for whom expectations are so low?
@PrincessVictoria_2004 - LOL
@PrisonerxOfxLove - If you are a prisoner of “love” maybe it’s time to think about parole.
@PrisonerxOfxLove – you are expecting thousands of people to all be tolerant. You will notice that the majority of them didn’t respond at all. Not all Christians are respectful just like not all atheists are respectful. That is human nature .
good post.
@dw817 - When a person does not like to “fight” as you put it, we say they are a passive individual. It means that you would rather let others have their own way instead of voice your view on a given issue. This is not a healthy way of living due to the fact that it will surely confuse you.
Addressing issues and problem with confidence in what you believe is called being assertive. A good mixture of some passiveness and some assertiveness is a health balance. Being respectful in your assertiveness is also a very important point.
Then we have those that are mean and demanding in what they are assertive about. This is being agressively assertive. This is by far the worse of the three.
Nothing wrong with avoiding a “fight”, or let’s just say confrontation, but you should know what you believe and why you believe it.
Let me finish by pointing out what I believe on one of your statements. I believe the Bible does not promote or allow homosexuality. Therefore, religion and the gay lifestyle cannot be mixed together. The Bible teaches love for all, but also give definite restrictions on lifestyles and actions.
I appreciate your comments. . .
Beautifully written, Amy.
It is hard to be tolerant to those who are intolerant to us.
frank
@RockDoctorJ - Would you also be opposed to the requirement to teach evolution in schools?
@bobcatg - Make an argument instead of the usual gay hate and abuse.
@djsvain - I’m sorry, but gays are completely safe around Christians. You folks have to dig up leftist atheists posing as the Westboro Baptists to get anywhere near Christians misbehaving.
Gays are one of the wealthiest most successful demographics in the United States.
Stop the whining. Stop the abuse. Stop the hate.
@Rhindon - Yes, I showed up today and had a cookies and cream shake! It sure was good! Hope that you enjoyed your peach shake. There was a LONG line and everytime I drove by, the line would extend all along the store and even outside into the main roads. Their plan certainly back fired. What the devil means for evil, God turns around for good!
@NightCometh - ”Christians who truly love non-Christians can think of no better thing to do than try to tell them now to NOT go to hell. It’s not to be annoying, it’s out of concern.” No, that is not concern. That is intolerance. In other words, you tell people their belief system is wrong. Get a dictionary and look up intolerance. Here, I’ll do it for you. in·tol·er·ance /ɪnˈtɒlərəns/ Show Spelled[in-tol-er-uhns] noun 1. lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc. If you tell me I’m going to hell because my faith is different than yours, You are INTOLERANT.
Loved your post. Thanks for sharing the video.
it’s impossible to make an argument that these people are Christians. my many Christian friends are pro gay rights and pro gay marriage. one of my friends, a Catholic, attends church at least two evenings a week. the priest is gay as are many in the parish.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - ”Gays are completely safe around Christians.” Except those who have been bullied so unmercifully to the point of commiting suicide. Except those who have been taken out and beaten to death. Yes, Christians (or those calling themselves Christians) have committed those acts.
Oh wait, wasn’t there some famous Christian that preached being merciful to others? If I remember right, his name was Jesus.
That is absolutely nuts. All I can say is, I can’t wait until I’m out of this world.
@NightCometh - Yeah, actually I do. If you show up at a gay or Pagan event and they’re angry with you for preaching, they’re not going to be open to your attempts to convert.
So a dude shows up at a gay pride event and picks a fight while his camera man films people getting mad. Go figure.
@mr_randyc –
”I believe the Bible does not promote or allow homosexuality.”
That’s confusing right there. Scatterbrained as I am, even I know we don’t live in biblical times ? We’ve got cellphones, computers, presidents, charities, and orphanages, and none of those existed in biblical times.
And if we (you and me) didn’t write the Bible – why should we follow another person’s path who did ?
And yeah you’re right about avoiding a fight. I gotta lot of bullying done to me from elementary though high school and now see a Dr every week for it (just saw him today) and have been seeing him for several years now.
@NightCometh - then you guys sincerely suck at delivering your message. how many souls have gone on to damnation because you failed to address the issue tactfully and with respect?
besides, who’s to say that all homosexuals are non-Christian? one of my best gay guy friends is a devout Catholic. how is his sin worse than anyone else’s? do you guys protest outside of courthouses that hold divorce hearings?
@romic - care to share an article about such an event? i’m sure it would have gotten tons of press.
If you think that’s hate- you have a rough row ahead, pal.
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
@dw817 - There are actually people in the world who believe the Bible is the word of God and who actually live their lives in accordance with what it teaches. These people are called Christians, and that is why the whole discussion got started.
@flapper_femme_fatale - Sure..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOp8J29ehco here is more on the same Church https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRiA1qtdHt4 It appears to be a Protestant one judging by the set up. It happens every now and again. Just search for more accounts.
@flapper_femme_fatale - I used to have a gay neighbor. He went to mass every Sunday.
@djsvain - I can echo the other poster. Genesis says that suffering is a direct result of Original Sin, the fall of Adam and Eve. Before they ate the fruit, there was no pain, no illness, no toil, no death. God left a way out for us. Even Genesis foretold the coming of Jesus to set us free from all sin and pain. In the New Testament we meet Mary, the new Eve and Jesus, the new Adam–in a spiritual sense to bring spiritual life. Jesus is our redeemer.
It is sad when one so young and innocent is so sick. When a baby is very ill and suffers and dies, it can try the faith of us all. Those who believe in Heaven and God know that that baby will be looking down on us after death, will be perfectly happy and be praying for us here on Earth. I rejoice in knowing that our current life is just part of the journey.
@djsvain - It is hard to grasp, but there are limits on marriage already…One must be a certain age and not married to someone else already. I see same sex marriage as special treatment because they are asking to go around the one man one woman standard. In Massachusetts they has so embraced same sex marriage to the point of making it a hate crime if parents don’t want their preschool aged children hearing stories about in in school. There it has become ‘reverse discrimination’. I don’t think legalizing gay marriage is getting at the real issue.
@bobcatg - Right. So name calling and verbal abuse is how gays show their love.
And you people want Christians to hand over their civilization to people like that?
@MiDarkLyfe - Blaming Christians for people who bully gays is as lame as Obama blaming Bush for the economy.
My daughter goes to college in Salem…yup THAT Salem.
Each year, Halloween is a HUGE event there…and lately the fundies are showing up to try to persuade the tourists to now come there. Ahem. Huge Wicca presence in that town. It’s like going to a KKK convention if you’re black, and expecting a warm reception. Not happening.
Back when the net was mostly AOL chats, I remember one thing vividly. The fundies were always crashing the wicca chats…NEVER the other way around. I guess the Pagans must be far more secure in their beliefs.
@NightCometh - Well, there is also the belief of Joseph Smith attains that God was once a human like us, and there are a great many followers of Mormonism today.
Scientology believes that we are descendants of an alien race from another galaxy, “The Galactic Confederacy.” and there are a great many followers of Scientology today.
But Christianity is also puzzling. Christianity is based on fear. Fear of the Lord, fear of the devil. Preachers inspiring fear in others.Christianity breeds a “chosen-people” mentality. And yes, there are a great many followers of Christianity today.
Christianity might be more believable if stories weren’t taken from the Bible, but they have been, and they are called the Lost Books Of The Bible.
So IMHO the Bible can’t be true for the very fact, we don’t have the full picture of it. If the Bible today is a pieced-together work and is not including the Lost Books – why ?
As for me ? I have to scratch the back of my head and rub my chin and say My – aren’t there a lot of curious beliefs out there.
My belief and it may be a single one is that it is beyond all these things – and we needn’t worry with it. That we should do the best we can here on Earth to help each other and mankind and only deal with the matter of the gods when we have crossed this threshold of life into death.
Only then might we might consider what lies beyond.
I think in doing this, a great deal of work and accomplishment would result.
We could even form ‘good’ doctrines that aren’t Theist based but just for the betterment of mankind overall.
And if we are not abandoned by this great creator, then why do the good suffer, why do the bad prosper, and why are the agnostic at peace with themselves and the universe ?
As a sovereign, do you think the Lord would want us all this time to continue to give tribute to him, which He really does not need, or, if we are his precious creation, to spend more time bettering ourselves, improving our laws, and decreasing bloodshed – furthering his precious creation ?
Who does the greater work ? The man praying in the church for good crops or the man outside toiling in the fields to feed his family ?
And I really don’t think God is so petty as to stoop down to human emotion as the Bible claims – vengeance for non-believers. He would destroy his own creation for this very human PRIDE ?
Is that the winning argument of Christianity – believe … or else ?
Who doesn’t want the flower to know it is cut when it is ready for a vase ? Certainly not the flower.
These questions I believe cannot be answered – certainly not by Christians who don’t have the whole picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Books_of_the_Bible
@romic - interesting. i take back what i said then, although i find it strange that no one was arrested.
@RockDoctorJ - There is also nothing tolerant about preaching to the “religious” telling them that they’re wrong, even to those who are quietly showing support. Lol So my thinking is that the religious are allowed to state their opinions, and be just as “intolerant” as those who state their stance and are also intolerant of the very religious beliefs they despise on certain forums, blogs, and vlogs. Also, how can you use a Bible that you don’t even follow fully or completely read, against a Christian? Lol. Most atheists against the Bible haven’t even read the entire scripture or know how it applies. So saying something ignorant like “judge not” just speaks volumes of ignorance.
@dw817 - You’re mixing religions and I don’t think you realize it…You’re simplifying the Bible. Mormons are a branch off and considered almost in the category of scientology. But I guess you are an atheist, who cannot explain the world. lol, Either way, I think you need to pray, because God is amazing and gives guidance and wisdom to those who ask for it. Trust me.
@Celtic_haven - Well now an Atheist, by definition, is someone who does not believe God exists. If you’re going to categorize me, please be accurate. *Grin*
I think I might be a Theist from my statement above. That is, someone who believes there is a great God, but at the same token, I think it’s possible that Jesus was a man, a nice one to be sure, but NOT the son of God. I really don’t think he’d have time with us.
And I think it’s possible the world was so terribly desperate for a messiah, that Jesus was chosen to be, because he was sucha nice guy. Likely I would’ve enjoyed meeting him too.
Earth represents 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001345632 % of the entire universe. And if we consider there are planes of existence outside of this, then that number becomes even smaller.
Do you really think that God in all His great power and glory is going to take time out of His schedule to address the needs of mankind who occupy even less of the universe than the planet itself, and make someone from divine birth who will clearly become a martyr for his cause only furnishing and burnishing great bloodshed and wars to follow ?
Perhaps as a species of man we are afraid of being alone. That there MUST be a God because we cannot deal with the terrible and possible truth that we are in fact alone in the universe.
Religion MUST exist because it substantiates our existence. That’s kinna sad when you think about it. Can’t we live for another reason ? Happiness and harmony with others, perhaps ? I like that choice better.
And in doing further research I found this, that Christianity is actually based on a different religion that came out many years before it did.
First off, know that the ancient world was rife with tales of virgin births, miracle-working saviors, tripartite gods, gods taking human form, gods arising from the dead, heavens and hells, days of judgment, and so forth. This has been done before.
In addition to the myths, many of the ceremonies of ancient religions also match those of that syncretic latecomer, Christianity.
To cite but one example (and there are many others), consider Mithraism, it is a Persian religion predating Christianity by centuries. Mithra, the savior of the Mithraic religion and a god who took human form, was born of a virgin – he belonged to the holy trinity and was a link between heaven and Earth – and he ascended into heaven after his death.
His followers believed in heaven and hell, and they alla looked forward to a day of judgment, and referred to Mithra as, “the Light of the World.”
Sounds a lot like Christianity, doesn’t it ?
They also practiced baptism (for purification purposes, and that makes sense I think, likely soap was not known) and ritual cannibalism, not so nice – the eating of bread and the drinking of wine to symbolize the eating and drinking of the god’s body and blood.
Curious stuff. Given all this, Mithra’s birthday should come as no surprise: December 25th – this event was, of course, celebrated by Mithra’s followers at midnight.
And I’ve no doubt in my mind that even the religion of Mithraism is based upon a further ancient history we have yet to uncover or unearth.
…
About a year ago, I wrote an article on the power of DOUBT. Without a doubt (pun intended) we never would’ve discovered fire, electricity, science, technology.
For it is with DOUBT that we doubted the words of our ancestors, that the fire that came down from the sky was in fact NOT the anger of the gods, no, it merely turned out to be lightning which can be scientifically proven and categorized today.
And that fire itself was in fact NOT a forbidden substance, not a holy implement. No, we used it to heat and warm our homes over time in a controlled substance we called – coal, also fully explainable now.
If we can let go of our ancient teachings, and push forth into this bright new shining world of ours, beyond the cobwebs and trappings of decadent ritual, I think we might be a more promising species to our great God in heaven, and by improving ourselves, as a creation, both mentally and physically, do we not in fact honor Him ?
What do you think ?
…
And to be honest, I never watched the video with sound, I played it silently – and not even all the way through, it looked sorta like something Jerry Springer might do.
To me, that is one or more person’s objective views, but not the entire spectrum. You can’t base the rage or hatred of one belief, clearly enjoying the fact they are on television camera, on the belief of one or more of it’s followers.
If there is to be forgiveness amongst us, it must be unconditional with no hooks, links, or clauses. Can Christianity offer this, I ask you ?
@dw817 - God interacts with us because he chose us. He made us. He loves us. He wants to be loved, but true love is a choice, never coerced. He sent his only Son to die for our sins and the sins of the whole world. He is a personal God. That’s why I hated those ‘Oh God’ movies. God seemed so distant. God is really wherever we are.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - You can close your eyes to the truth. Obviously you do it well. But the truth remains. Gays are constantly bullied by Christians. Christians may call it by other names, but it is what it is.
I think I’ll march into a church with a megaphone and start proclaiming how there’s no evidence that Moses or Abraham ever existed, there’s just as much evidence for Jesus’ miracles as there is for Mohommed flying away on a winged horse, and that the earth has scientifically been proven to be billions of years old, so a literal reading of original sin doesn’t apply. I’d add on to that maybe that Christianity itself is a sin, see how that flies. I’m pretty sure I’d get the same reaction as the Christian in this video, perhaps even worse, but it would not be anti-atheist discrimination. I was going where nobody wanted me and being a complete dick.
@bobcatg - Right. So
name calling and verbal abuse is how gays show their love. And
you people want Christians to hand over their civilization to people
like that? Good to
know it’s “your” civilization, love prisoner. That says a lot more
about you than you seem to realize. The United States’
founding was heavily influenced by the historical time known as “The Age
of Reason”. It was more than simply a protest against the religious
orthodoxies of the day with the Catholic church being preeminent and the Protestant
reformation hot on it’s heels. People sought
America for freedom FROM religion as well as freedom FOR religion. Of course we
live in a revisionist era- rather like the old Soviet-style history lessons in
which history is a plaything of current expediency. Before you maintain that
“the gays” and their “agenda” are attempting to rewrite history
it might be good for you to consider that people are attempting to find what is
authentic about their experiences and lives after having suffered through
centuries of being defined by the fearful folks who passed judgement on them. Just as with slavery and Civil Rights there
has been a revolution in thinking and expression based on people reclaiming-
always the hard way- what they think and feel they are reasonably entitled to
as free-thinking, if not freely living or expressive, human beings. The “equality”
granted by our “creator” as expressed by that well-known Deist Thomas Jefferson
is a fairly open-ended one that allows for discoveries among ourselves in the
future as to how our liberty, even our “happiness”, would be best expressed. The “attack” on Christianity you seem to be
convinced of is not one in the same with others’ expressions of the legal
rights all other free people may expect. That “attack” is based on your deluded
notion- and clearly you are not alone here- that America is or should be a
theocracy. It is not a theocracy and if it were to become one we will know that
this experiment in human freedom is truly dead. As for the people
involved in the “counter demonstration” to the Gay pride event you use as your
indictment it seems pretty obvious that lacking their own good example they
have chosen to be provocateurs for their own political-religious agendas. Just as many who whine about “class warfare”-
with it’s not very subtle implication of Marxism- are themselves leading that conflict with
their dreams of avarice intact at the expense of any idea of a social “good” so,
too, do many alleged “Christians” wring their hands about being treated rudely
after provoking a confrontation. There is a good deal of difference in finding
others’ attitudes unappealing or at least not of one’s own preference and in
claiming that by being unappealing such people are inherently taking away one’s
already existing rights or trying to destroy one’s very creed.
You seem to have your “talking points” all in
a row- nothing less than “hate” will do for your phony and sad accusations to
gain your political goals. And make no mistake, by adding laws and amendments
aimed at insuring others do not deserve to have the same rights you take for
granted you are taking political action rather than using your powers of
persuasion and your own good example to move people in the direction you think
wise or just. That battle seems to have been left behind- and you’re hard
pressed to see it with that log in your eye.@PrisonerxOfxLove -
@MiDarkLyfe - Some Christians are bullies, Westboro Baptist Church, for instance. They also disrupt military funerals. Westboro is more of a cult than bona fide a Christian Church. Bullying gays, or anyone else, is un Christian. Some Churches are much more accepting, as they should be. Anyone who goes around shouting, “GOD HATES FAGS!” is a kook, not a Christian.
@romic - God chose us ? Isn’t it possible – we chose Him, because we needed Him more than He needed us ?
Without concrete evidence, a lot is subject to change and that old amazing (and in some people’s dictionaries – devilish) word, FAITH. The very word of faith means, “Belief that is not based on proof.”
And if this is the case, then, now listen carefully, for these are my own words, “Is proof of the Bible even necessary to support it’s own cause ?”
Now pause and think about that very statement for a moment. And perhaps those words may seem like a move in a difficult game of chess, and perhaps they are.
Dissect it. Understand it. If the entire religion of Christianity is based on Faith then – now take this carefully – does not the Bible itself contradict it’s own religion because it proves what should NOT be proven.
Proof and Faith being complete opposites.
If Christianity is based entirely on Faith, then any evidence to support what may have ACTUALLY occurred is contrary to it’s beliefs !
The point is, I find it hard to believe that a great supreme being would Love us as deep and direly as is so worded by his subjects if he is in fact so very non-evident of proof of His existence.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say the Bible is a completely authentic piece of work and then turn around and say OBTW we don’t need to prove it cause it’s Faith.
That’s a devil’s loop right there, and I don’t use the word devil loosely in this context.
I know there are a great many people who say, Faith will move mountains. And yes, perhaps it will. But DOUBT will turn those very same mountains into roads and paths where people can live.
Doubt will mine those mountains for the precious ores they bear to improve mankind’s ability and science.
And Doubt will write in books and digital media the very definition of the word Mountain – and not be afraid of it. To understand it, accept it, and realize it is, essentially a large rock covered with dirt – and now that we know this – we can move on to larger and more complex things.
Let’s say a very tall mountain were considered holy, sacred even. Then people might flock beneath it and worship it and may even line it down with flowers. That’s a nice sentiment.
But if we got over this, and realized that it is just a mountain, certainly taller than us, certainly more imposing, do we not do the greater good by discovering what it actually is, not based on Faith, but Truth, and in time place people to live upon this very and same mountain.
Is that blasphemous ? In certain lights and subjects, yes, yes it is. And seriously so. Some would say I would be ready to be burned at the stake for not believing this mountain is holy and sacred.
It is when we can overcome this very word, “blasphemy” and change it to, “I don’t know.” then I think we’re on the road to salvation, and by that, I mean the betterment of mankind who THEN begins to ask questions and not just accept things based on … (wait for it)
Faith.
@dw817 - Mountains can be holy places, but aren’t gods. No, we can’t easily prove God loves us. The Bible says so. I think we have to try to have a personal relationship with God in order to find God. I guess I see it as we aren’t here by chance. Conception is itself almost impossible. If the Earth were a bit hotter or colder or if the atmosphere were just a bit thinner, or thicker it might be hard to live here. I don’t think anything happens by chance…
Proof God exists? Some would say life is proof enough.
@romic - You are absolutely right. Lots of people who call themselves ‘Christian’ are not. Many don’t understand the meaning of the word.
@romic - Westboro Baptist Church is not Christian. They don’t hold to the basic tenants of the faith…mainly grace through CHRIST’S righteousness apart from the law.
@NightCometh - Agreed!
@MiDarkLyfe - I agree.
@dw817 -Let’s put it this way–all religion has some truth…what I meant by mountains look at Mt. Sinai–10 Commandments. Jesus, James, John and Peter climbed a mountain and met Moses and Elijah–transfiguration.
I did the best I could to answer it. I am having trouble following it.
@romic -
God loves us because the Bible tells us so ? Yes, I remember the melody, pretty actually. It’s the lyrics I have a problem with.
Even at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that he was ready to destroy you. Deuteronomy 9:8
Then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you. Joshua 23:16
Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. Isaiah 13:9
I can think of more. Are we reading from the same book here ?
Hmm … I think I have quite a bit to add to my blog tomorrow. Don’t worry – it will just be what I wrote. In any case mankind has sorta figured out how God may or may not have hadda hand in creation.
The Big Bang ! Hmm … yeah right. *laughs*
Although I tend to hold a different theory, having more to do with ripples in the universe based on consciousness linking echoes of interrupted – well … Silly idea I’m sure we can save that bedtime story for another night.
Just how does Prokaryotic bacteria feel the incredible emotions that music may instill within it ? Can we measure it ? No, then we certainly can’t deny it.
Don’t we talk to our plants, our pets ? And yes, I even talk to my stuffed animals – perhaps too often if the truth be known. *Grin*
And just because we are alive doesn’t necessarily mean that Christianity is the one true divine grace and/or that He was not in any way influenced by an outside stimuli beyond our comprehension, that’s a rather narrow view. Hmm !
We only cannot travel the path of the sacred and forbidden because we CHOOSE not to, we limit ourselves by condition and fear, such as the untraversable mountain.
But don’t worry ! I brought some flowers to give the great mountain too.
But would you look at that ! They are only silk ones sprayed with a little Glade Rose Fragrance air-freshener. Do they have to be real ones ? Is that a law ?
It is not so much that I believe this mountain is in fact a holy or sacred symbol given to us by our Lord and Creator, it’s just the fact that I like to see the lovely flower arrangements decorated around it’s base and wanna join in the fun.
It’s pretty ! Hey, is anyone gonna take a photo of that ?
I’ve always wanted to see the division – the raw freedom of existentialism separated from the bondage of human religion =peaceably= with no wars and no hurt feelings. Wow – can you imagine that ? No, I mean REALLY see it, with your own eyes. Your own heart …
And yet – perhaps not in my lifetime, certainly not today, and maybe by someone more learned in the field of doubt, give or take an aeon or two.
@romic - Your right, one must be of a certain age in order to protect our young from being taken advantage of. We do that because if you were to step back even just since the beginning of our own countries history, girls were being married of at the age of 14, 15, or 16. At that age they are not old enough or experienced enough in life to make adult choices that will effect the rest of their life. I honestly don’t know why you can’t be married to more than one person at a time. Though I wouldn’t do it and I don’t agree with paligamy, or polyamory necessarily, it is not taking away the rights of any person involved. They are all adults who choose this course in their own life. They are doing so of their own free will. Not my place or anybodies place to make that choice for them. Incest, your right, it’s disgusting, but there is a medical reason for it to be ilegal. It greatly increases the chances of deformities in birth. That again is taking something from somebody who wouldn’t other wise have chosen that for themselves. So gay marriage is not special concideration it is simply constitutionally correct. Nothing about being gay and getting married takes away the rights of any christian, straight person, or anybody else. They are consenting adults who are aware and of sane mind, and legal age to make choices for themselves. For those reasons alone, the government should back the hell out of this, it isn’t their choice.
@romic - If he wants us to believe, simply come on down and prove his own existence. If he wants us to love him, don’t make us suffer without NEED. Would you hurt the one you love? Of course you wouldn’t, at least not and expect to be loved in return. The God of your bible is about as evil and vindictive as you can get. If you think about it, he even set us all up to fail. Sure, give us free will. But with free will, don’t give us knowledge. Without knowledge also don’t give us a sense of right and wrong. Then drop a couple people you supposedly love into a garden of surpassing beauty and tell them everything there is for them except of course the fruit of that one tree there. Now they know what they have been told. But they don’t know it is wrong to disobey since they didn’t have the knowledge of right or wrong until after eating the fruit. So to them the rules god put down were just words and had no importance whatsoever. Yet here we are (6 or 7 thousand years later by biblical historians) still suffering for eating a fruit we didn’t know it was wrong to eat. Gee, so forgiving. So loving.
@NightCometh - Actually, they are. They scream loudly about the fact that you should turn your back from all those who do not hold the tenants of God. That is repeated over and over in the bible. If anything they are one of the Most Christian Groups I have seen. That being said , I do prefer the washed out version that most people are. Since the bible openly advocates hatred and violence repeatedly.
@djsvain - So by your logic, I’m less Christian than WBC because I’m not screaming at anyone?
@NightCometh - Actually, yes. Read the bible. By the laws of the bible, Every city in the world today should be burned to the ground and salted so that nothing could grow again, because every city has people in it who are openly teaching of other gods. By the laws of the bible, you have a right to beat your slaves. By the laws of the bible, if the woman you marry isn’t a virgin on the day of the wedding she is to be stoned until dead. By the laws of the bible, A rapist is supposed to pay the father of his victim money and marry her. By the laws of the bible, your not supposed to eat shell fish, or pork, or even have anything to do with swine. By the laws of the bible, all homosexual acts are an abomination and should be punished as such. This is ALL in the bible. And before you go telling me that this all changed when Jesus came, not only did Jesus refute that in the bible, but you would then be admitting that God got it wrong first and then changed things later(thus making god fallible, not perfect.) If your god was perfect he would have created exactly what he wanted, exactly how he wanted it and nothing would change. Now if for some reason you believe that is what happened, then you also believe god created suffering, pain, murderers, hatred, disease, natural disasters, etc. You can’t say that god created only what is good, because god created EVERYTHING, and that is also, in your bible.
Try reading it. Try reading it without somebody telling you what parts apply. Try actually looking at it word for word without trying to interpret the words for any more than what is written, and verbatim. You will find a much different story than the book of love and peace that you profess the bible to be.
@djsvain - I do read it, on my own, thanks. It all works together to tell a beautiful story about Jesus.
@NightCometh – What did you just skip the whole first half of the book? Even Jesus said all the laws would still apply until heaven and earth are no more. Now since I happen to still be standing on earth , the rules obviously still shop l still apply. So tell me how I can be a good Christian and kill everybody in a city that I find one person teaching about another god . Sounds like a story of love to me. How about all the female teachers in America? Women according to the bible are not supposed to be taught anything other than how to care for the home . I am grateful that people don’t follow all of the laws of the bible, but don’t claim you do when you pick and choose what to follow.
@NightCometh –
Never scream. It makes you look bad and they wonder what that strange noise is coming out of your mouth.
Instead whisper to force them to pay attention and mumble so you can’t be held accountable for it later.
@djsvain - Jesus did come down to Earth and prove His existence. Some accepted him, some did not. He shares in our joys and sorrows. This life will never be pain free. The next one could be. Heaven is our intended home.
@djsvain - I believe that interpreting it with the guidance of the Church works best.
@romic - So 2000 years ago, a guy came down saying he was the son of God, God, and so forth, and the only actual record of it is in the bible, and that’s good enough. Come on now. But then again, there is also no record of a bunch of dead people coming out of the graves accept in the bible too.
As far as interpreting the bible goes. So which church has it right? Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Mormons, Seventh day Adventists, Southern Baptists, New Hope, Methodist, Which one? There are literally hundreds of different churches in America, and each one of them teaches the basics the same but varies in very distinct ways that all make them argue and fight over who is the right church. If there really was a God, there would be no doubts whatsoever as to what the right church would be. You would just know it and everybody else would know the same thing. That is not the same as taking away free will. You can still be free to not go, to not worship or love God, but at least you would know. Again a limit on God or is it just that he enjoys having everybody squirm under threat of eternal damnation. So instead of reading an learning the truth of the bible, you choose to believe what the preacher tells ya. Did you ever wonder why they call it a flock? In everything else in life is somebody called you a sheep, you would take offence, but when it comes to religion it makes you proud. It’s amazing how much one accepts degradation and insults at the expense of “Faith”.
Let’s say oral tradition preceded a written Bible. Adam and Eve were said to live some 6000 years ago in what is now Baghdad. Abraham and Sarah came from the same land. God called them–they were the first Jewish/Hebrew people.
Fast forward: Jesus did form a Church around 33 AD. This was the Catholic Church. Different sects were founded by different of the 12 Chosen. They all were still under the Pope. Jesus put Peter in charge in his absence–it’s in the Bible. To know how early Christians worshiped look up St. Justin Martyr–not much different than modern Catholics.
As to when the Bible was written down it was centuries later. Christianity was illegal until the time of Constantine. He even sent his mother to Jerusalem to learn what she could about Jesus. A lot of the Gospel was oral tradition prior to the Council of Niacea. This was the beginning of figuring what books belonged in the Bible. I have not doubt in God, and no doubt in His Church. 9The Catholic Bible has 72 books.)
Martin Luther in the late 1400′s decided to leave the Church. He later decided to remove books from the Bible, 14 in all. His colleagues talked him into restoring 7 of them. Why are there 33,000 Christian groups? I think it is due to sin. This group splinters, then more groups splinter off those splinters. Only God could bring all the different ‘denominations’ together under one leader. The leader would be Jesus.
God is not some meanie waiting until we mess up so he can send us to hell. No he loves us and wants heaven for all of us. We have to want heaven, too.
@NightCometh - Thank your for taking the time to answer
I think your comparison between gay is hell and poison drink is incorrect.
In your example, the other person doesn’t know that it’s poison, so warning (and offering antidote to) the other person is a good thing, yes. BUT in this case, the other person DOES know that it’s poison and they also know there is an antidote (I’m sure gay people know what the bible says, and yet “choose” to live that way).
If it’s their wish to die, your warning is useless, because that’s what they’ve wanted anyway.
If they drank it knowingly, but then regret it and want to keep on living, they will ask for an antidote by themselves.
UM you are really cool! I like your blog
@LillPill - Believe it or not, I found your blog and wanted to subscribe but couldn’t find any links! I’m so glad you came here
@NightCometh - hah, I guess you are right…I don’t have any links
I wonder how the others have subscribed…Well isn’t it that when you leave a comment, xanga offers you a subscription to that persons page?! anywho, yes I love a good online fellowship 
Well said, clear succinct and accurate. I LOVE that combination!
Amen.
@romic – sorry I don’t check back on this all too often, so I just saw this. So all the proof of God’s existence we are expected to go on congress from one badly translated book written almost100 years after the death of a guy who claimed to be the son of God and god himself. Not to mention there are no other records of God existence let alone good son from the time. Given a little bit of time I could find records of all the criminals,number of soldiers and inventory for local stores, and no mention of Jesus,including court records. Sure I can believe in something with absolutely no real proof.
@romic -replying from phone, sorry about type-o’s